sy.factory Problems

Yamaha SY77 is a 16 voice multitimbral music workstation first produced by Yamaha Corporation in 1989. The SY77 is a synthesizer whose architecture combines AFM (Advanced Frequency Modulation) synthesis, AWM2 (Advanced Wave Memory 2) for ROM-borne sample-based synthesis, and the combination of these two methods christened Realtime Convolution and Modulation Synthesis (RCM).

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Re: sy.factory Problems

Unread postby Merkur » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:37 pm

Hi Derek,

I installed a clean new system (downloaded the last Sierra version 10.12.4) on an external disk.
No application, no user, nothing! Except that I did not reformat the disk before installation…

I downloaded and installed last version of Java (8.131) and sy.factory

Sy.factory works a little bit better in terms of copying and pasting and opening windows, but :

1) still impossible to copy certain type of voices on location containing another type. Some combinations are working, but not all. And of course I am aware of bank D being different type of voice. Just tried some copy-paste with the first 8 or 10 voices.
2) still impossible to toggles views (table/tree) except for the very first one created. But that's not a big problem.
3) connecting with TG77 ok, but still error message after every voice downloaded. It works but you have to press "return" to acknowledge for the error after each voice otherwise sy.factory doesn't load the next voice.

I think I will continue to order my patches manually, it will be faster ;-)

Regards,

Henri

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Re: sy.factory Problems

Unread postby Derek » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:41 pm

Hi, Henri

It is interesting that this makes it better, if not perfect. Even if we do not have the foggiest idea as to why!

I am sorry that you feel that way, but I can understand if it is not working for you. I would like to solve it if I can, but need something more to go on, which may be tough to find.

If you have some time, I would be interested if you delete 3.11 completely from the current clean system you have and install 3.9 from the following link and see if it behaves any differently. Forget about MIDI for now (3.9 does not have CoreMIDI4J in, but that itself is interesting), just see if the general functions are more stable.

http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk/Do ... er_3_9.jar
Regards
Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
http://www.ex5tech.com

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Re: sy.factory Problems

Unread postby Merkur » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:15 pm

Ok, I'do it and keep you informed.

I did not have any choice but to install the last OS... I know it is really "fair" because you developed it on another OS, but I don't have other options for now...
Last edited by Merkur on Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: sy.factory Problems

Unread postby Merkur » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:38 pm

Hi Derek,

just made a quick try on OS Yosemite 10.10.5 and it works A LOT better!
Copy paste works ok, but sometimes it suddenly stops to work as expected and when you click on a voice some other voice becomes highlighted or only a part of the line and the cut/copy/paste icons stays gray...

A little bug : when you delete a voice it creates an init voice on location 64 and shift the voices above the one you just deleted, but that means if you delete a voice of bank A, B or C then bank C will receive a voice of bank D : forbidden!

Have to stop now but I'll try on OS Sierra asap!

Regards and good night!

Henri

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Re: sy.factory Problems

Unread postby Derek » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:26 am

Hi, Henri

Which version of sy.factory on 10.10.5?

Good spot on that delete bug, the funny thing is that I realised yesterday when writing my responses to you explaining insert behaviour that I probably wasn't accounting for it and put it on my list to check. Insert behaviour is fine as it is, as that will only push "small voices" into Bank D which is allowed, but delete needs some consideration, for example
  • Delete a voice or range of voices in Banks A-C - then the blank voice should be inserted at C-16, not D-16
  • Delete a voice of range of voices in Bank D, then the current behaviour is fine
  • Delete a group of voices straddling Banks C-D then the delete operation will need to be split into two delete operations (as above).

Actually it could get more complex than that, as if bank D only contains small voices then the current behaviour is fine! :)

Or, if only the last four voices in Bank D are large voices, then should the new voice be inserted at D-12?

Quite a bit to think about there!
Regards
Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
http://www.ex5tech.com

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Re: sy.factory Problems

Unread postby Merkur » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:09 am

Hi Derek,

I did what you suggested :


Derek wrote:If you have some time, I would be interested if you delete 3.11 completely from the current clean system you have and install 3.9 from the following link and see if it behaves any differently. Forget about MIDI for now (3.9 does not have CoreMIDI4J in, but that itself is interesting), just see if the general functions are more stable.

http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk/Do ... er_3_9.jar


I would like to try midi with that version : what Java lib do I need?

Regards,

Henri

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Re: sy.factory Problems

Unread postby Merkur » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:04 am

Hi Derek,

I found the info on your website, & installed CoreMIDI4J : now communication with TG77 and downloading voices works fine!
Bank editing suffers some flaws like we saw, but I will use it like that.
So I'm going to buy a license!

Regards,

Henri

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Re: sy.factory Problems

Unread postby Merkur » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:05 am

Seems thus that the communicating bugs came with your new version...

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Re: sy.factory Problems

Unread postby Derek » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:27 am

Hi, Henri

That is interesting, but there has been no change in MIDI Comms for quite a few years, other than of course me writing CoreMIDI4J as a modern alternative to MMJ, but if you have downloaded and installed the latest CoreMIDI4J (0.9) then that is what is in the sy.factory package!

Basically the history of the recent versions :

  • 3.9 - is the version where CoreMIDI4J was introduced (essentially MMJ specific code was taken out of the librarians!) that seems to work best for you, with CoreMIDI4J as an external library?
  • 3.10 - embeds CoreMIDI4J so users do not have to worry about the faff of external MIDI providers, but it is the same library
  • 3.11 - adds much improved WaveBlade support, including direct comms with the WaveBlade - but that is disabled unless you enable it

In slower time it would be worth stepping to 3.10 (I'll dig out the download) and see if that is the same, better or worse than 3.9. Maybe some system environments do not like CoreMIDI4J embedded.

Another possible experiment is to install 3.11, open the package and delete the CoreMIDI4J files (it is going to use the version in the extensions folder first anyway, but removing them will remove them as an influence).
Regards
Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
http://www.ex5tech.com

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Re: sy.factory Problems

Unread postby Merkur » Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:49 pm

Hi Derek,

I managed to make some patch selection, reorganize it and send it to the TG77, but... impossible to save a SYX file on disk!
When asking to save, no file is actually created on disk, and the title of the window receives a second ".syx" at the end of the name string!
Well... I will try version 3.11 without the CoreMIDI4J files.

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Re: sy.factory Problems

Unread postby Derek » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:09 pm

Hi, Henri

There was a bug with saving SYSEX files, which was fixed in 3.11. If it is just voices you are interested in, you can use regular TNN or JNN files to save voice data. TGG77 voices are the same as SY77 voices, but Multis have an additional message with extra data in.

If you wish to try 3.11 without CoreMIDI4J embedded, then, after installing 3.11
  • Go to Finder
  • Navigate to sy.factory in Applications
  • Right click over it and select Show Package Contents
  • Navigate to Contents/Java
  • Delete CoreMIDI4J.jar

When I get five minutes later on, I will double check that this works and that MIDI Comms is still OK with CoreMIDI4J installed as a Java Extension (as opposed to embedded in the application), so you may wish to wait until I report back about that.
Regards
Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
http://www.ex5tech.com

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Re: sy.factory Problems

Unread postby Derek » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:32 pm

Hi, Henri

I have double checked taking out CoreMIDI4J from the V3.11 package and installing it in /Library/Java/Extensions, and, as expected, sy.factory is fine with that.

Note since 3.10 where CoreMIDI4J was embedded in the package, then sy.factory expects it, and will not run correctly without it when trying to access MIDI functions, as it is making use of CoreMID4J functions. I need to improve the error trapping just in case CoreMIDI4J is not present for some reason.
Regards
Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
http://www.ex5tech.com

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Re: sy.factory Problems

Unread postby Merkur » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:03 am

Ok, thanks for those infos.

I managed to use sy.factory to organise voices in the TG77 and then exporting a sysex file to disk with another software.
When I have the time I will experiment your suggestions, but in the meantime I am in the middle of mixing, producing and rehearsing and trying to find some time to sleep...

Regards,

Henri

PS: you live in Wales don't you? I would love to know that country! Maybe in june I will manage to go there with my wife & daughter and I will ask you some advices...

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Re: sy.factory Problems

Unread postby Derek » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:29 am

Hi, Henri

No problems - like you I need a clone of me to do everything I need to do!

Yes, I live in West Wales, which is a lovely part of the world and well worth visiting.
Regards
Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
http://www.ex5tech.com

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Re: sy.factory Problems

Unread postby DarylWise » Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:04 am

Derek wrote:Hi, Henri

No problems - like you I need a clone of me to do everything I need to do!

Yes, I live in West Wales, which is a lovely part of the world and well worth visiting.


I just emailed you as I just bought your sy.factory but when I copy and paste the name and serial, I continuously get an invalid license error. Tried re-installing sy.factory numerous times now.


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