Juno Gi Computer Connectivity The Way It Should Be!

The Roland Juno Gi -Massive Soundbank + Multitrack Digital Recording + Computer Integration

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Juno Gi Computer Connectivity The Way It Should Be!

Unread postby Saul » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:56 am

See this is how it should work. Plug the Roland Juno Gi into the MAC, fire up Korg Legacy Digital or Absynth and there's the Juno Gi in the MIDI input list. No drivers installed, no faffing about, just plug and go!

In contrast the Yamaha MOX I had needed drivers which were not supplied in the box and only the old drivers were available on Yamaha's UK site which of course would not work with the MOX and OSX Snow Leopard. Eventually found the right driver on the US site but, why have to mess about with them in the first place? If the Roland can just plug and go, why not the Yamaha? Are Roland cleverer than Yamaha at interfacing a keyboard with a computer? I don't think so. Why then not make it just a simple matter of plug the thing in and start making music?

Apologies for yet another jibe at Yamaha but I really wish they would get into "user friendly" mode instead of the usual convoluted interfaces and USB driver hassles.

They remind me very much of Apple. Take the iPhone. Great concept, lovely design, smooth interface, completely unintuitive user experience if you want to get anything on to it! All that faffing around with iTunes which you MUST use, just to get your MP3's or ring tones onto it.

Contrast that with my Samsung Galaxy S running Android. Want to put some ring tones, ebooks, mp3's on it? No problem, plug it in, drag and drop from your computer, job done!

Yamaha should take a leaf out of the Android and Roland way of doing things. Result is VERY happy users :)

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Re: Juno Gi Computer Connectivity The Way It Should Be!

Unread postby Saul » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:05 pm

Well of course the thing is, it should be plug and play no matter if your using Windows or OSX. The hardware tech is the same in my Mac as it is in my Windows PC. With the Yamaha you would need drivers no matter what system you were using, whereas with the Juno Gi on the MAC you just plug it in and your good to go!

Windows 7 however is another matter and whilst I can plug my phone in and navigate it's contents without drivers the same can't be said of my keyboard. In Win 7 the Juno Gi still requires the usb drivers which given that the MAC doesn't is a bit pathetic!

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Re: Juno Gi Computer Connectivity The Way It Should Be!

Unread postby parametric » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:41 am

Saul wrote:In Win 7 the Juno Gi still requires the usb drivers which given that the MAC doesn't is a bit pathetic!


Can't really explain the difference in behaviour between Roland and Yamaha . . . .

If anything, I always considered that Roland was more PC friendly - vis a vis the MPU 401 midi interface, and even my old LAPC1 - basically an MT32 on an ISA card.

I fondly remember Sierra's "Conquest of the Longbow" for PC in Dos. (6 x 1.2mb floppies) Soundblaster for noises and FX, and the LAPC1 for the Music - worked superbly well together . . . . once you got the Hi memory sorted out :roll:

Mac always boasted suitability for music, whereas the PC never did.

The basic problem is the insistance of Windows to handle ALL communication between applications and hardware. Directly addressing hardware outside of Windows is NOT allowed. Hence the ball-ache of decent drivers, the existence of which depends on the will of the product manufacturer to siphon money into microsoft to "buy compliance" for them . . . .

Okay - Linux still uses drivers too - but it all seems so much less hassle all round - and Mac OSX is born out of BSD Linux . . . .

Mac is mostly less hassle in my experience. (I'm lucky enough to have both) But thats a well run argument that I'm not really intending to start up again here :wink:

Best

parametric
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Oh, and a Roland LAPC1 (MT32-on-a-card) which I can't use anymore - it is a full length 8-bit ISA card ;-)
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Re: Juno Gi Computer Connectivity The Way It Should Be!

Unread postby Saul » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:02 am

Thing is, if you look at the amount of people on the forum that have issues with Windows and USB drivers for their Yamaha keyboards it's pretty clear that Yamaha in particular seem to give the driver aspect of their hardware very little thought in regard to the end user experience. They seem content to let people go on struggling to get their gear connected and this makes the whole experience of making music with a computer too frustrating for many users.

I would have thought a company the size of Yamaha with the sort of resources they can muster, this whole driver situation could have been resolved a long time ago.

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Re: Juno Gi Computer Connectivity The Way It Should Be!

Unread postby Fozzer » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:02 pm

The last time I got involved with getting my DX Synths coupled to my computer, was in 1984, involving my trusty 48K Sinclair Spectrum, and a bit of specialist hardware and software...

...no problemo, inserting the notes on the stave, one by one, using the Speccy keyboard.
Infinite patience required, but it worked via a Spectrum MIDI Interface, controlling all my DX's together as a complete orchestra!
Wonderful, experimental days!.... :D ....!

Its all far too complicated for me now, with various PC, DAW Software, and my patience to learn now is not what it used to be!
My Motif Workstations include all the gubbins for programming songs, etc, but life is far too short for fiddling about!... :wink: ...!
So I just sit down and play my keyboards, live, nowadays!
Instant entertainment for me.....(and anyone else prepared to listen, when the dreaded "Television" doesn't get in the way!).... 8O ...!

(Over)complicated software gives me a headache!... :cry: ...!

Paul....tinkling the ivories....live!.... :lol: ...!
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Re: Juno Gi Computer Connectivity The Way It Should Be!

Unread postby parametric » Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:24 am

Hi Guys,

Yes Saul, I agree. Yamaha does indeed have the resources to smooth the way for PC users. They could usefully do more in the manuals (That I have seen) to more fully describe the setup to use the board with the PC (or Mac - why not?). The present reference is usually a small "comment" panel casually referring to the driver on the CD, and the "supplied" lead.

The problem is that many second-users often never get the CD OR the lead and are left staring at an inexplicable mini-din socket saying WTF is that! - it aint a MIDI socket . . . ! :evil:
Surely a reference in the manual with a diagram and a part number wouldn't COST a lot. Surely its a standard part whatever board you've got.
The driver too is NOT listed if you look up PSRs

Question - could we get the driver(s) and upload them to our download section. Perhaps asking Yamaha for permission?

Problem with windows is that if you don't do stuff in the right order - it doesn't work - so success depends on how experienced you are at windows. Very frustrating.

Yes Fozzer, I remember a guy who routinely appeared at all the computer and music shows back in the 70s - 80s - I think he was called Mike Barnes - who did a brilliant presentation of his product, which was a MIDI interface and sequencing SW which was available for the C64, BBC, Amstrad 6502? (the one with the "quick-disk" (2.8" floppy) on the side, and the spectrum? (I think). His presentations were inspiring, hacking together a track with drums, bass, strings and lead in about 5 minutes had many reaching for their wallets. Sadly I was not able to afford it at that stage - I was just becoming aware of the BBC and had not even met the PC at that stage . . . .Hell, I didn't have a computer at all then . . .
It did sow the seeds though . . .

Thing is now I have all the gear, but the computer room is not large enough to accomodate the Fusion 8HD or the SY85. I have a dinky Roland mother KB which perhaps I should try. The 8 HD lives in my bedroom along with 2 Revoxes and my iBook G4. Next stop is to try using ProTools with the 8 HD. I HATE working with cans but its the only option for me sadly. :(

When all is said and done, I tend to coalesce, and just play the keys. :wink: Very lazy, I guess . . . .

Best Regards

parametric
Alesis Fusion 8SSD AND 6SSD - BOTH are 384Mb/120Gb SSD/Akai ADVANCE61/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash Ram/Yamaha SY85/8.5mb vol/1024k non-vol/DX21/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu MATE 15.0.4/iBook G4/Mac OS 10.4.6/ProTools 7.4/MBox2/M-Audio 24/96 Sector101 2x SYEMB06 / 4 x EXM-E3 128MB DRAM Module
Oh, and a Roland LAPC1 (MT32-on-a-card) which I can't use anymore - it is a full length 8-bit ISA card ;-)
BRAND NEW DSDD (720k) FLOPPY DISKS FOR SALE - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=9217

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Re: Juno Gi Computer Connectivity The Way It Should Be!

Unread postby Saul » Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:17 pm

Ahh yes, back in the days when programers really did program, not use other software to do it for them. It was amazing what they could do with so little resources. I have had all sorts of computers over the years, ZX81, Spectrum, Oric 1, Dragon 32, C128, Atari ST FM, Amiga 520, 1000, 4000 and then pc's starting with a 286, 386 DX, 486 DX2 through to the first Pentium's and now to my current iMac 24 and various laptops, netbooks and the two PC's running windows 7, also got another running Windows Server 2003. A lot has changed over that time but one thing that seems to stay pretty constant is Windows convoluted way of installing drivers and Yamaha's slow progress in the user friendly department.

I agree we should stick the divers on the site as we find them because links are going down all the time and some of the older drivers people need because they are running older gear are just proving next to impossible to find yet, they must be out there somewhere.

So there you are chaps. We're on a mission to bring these drivers and utils together into one stable resource that won't disappear on people. Some might require permission from the owners and although it would seem a sensible thing to do I can still envisage some of these owners throwing their toys out of the pram and not playing ball. In which case we could all perhaps keep them locally so they are available should people want them?

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Re: Juno Gi Computer Connectivity The Way It Should Be!

Unread postby Clyde » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:57 pm

Saul, I agree with keeping as many resources for these older keyboards as possible. As you said, you can't rely on the links being there and as well most manufacturers have no/few people (with a ferw exceptions) still working for them that are knowledgeable about these older drivers and gear. We need to be able to keep this older gear up and running!
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Re: Juno Gi Computer Connectivity The Way It Should Be!

Unread postby mygames » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:25 am

<->
Clyde wrote:Saul, I agree with keeping as many resources for these older keyboards as possible. As you said, you can't rely on the links being there and as well most manufacturers have no/few people (with a ferw exceptions) still working for them that are knowledgeable about these older drivers and gear. We need to be able to keep this older gear up and running!
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