AfterGlow

Post music you have created here. Doesn't have to be pro quality. the idea is to share and get feedback :)

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AfterGlow

Unread post by parametric » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:30 pm

In light of the recent discussion of VSTis and Workstation Presets . .

I made this using a mix of both

12-string Electric (Fusion preset) imported as Audio - ornamented with NI Guitar Rig 5

Taurus Bass Pedals (Fusion Preset - from (sadly - the late) Steve Howell @ HollowSun) imported as Audio

Giovanni Choir (Fusion Preset) imported as Audio

Drums - Started life as Fusion Preset SampleHeads Acoustic Kit - imported at midi, edited in Reaper and re-iterated through MT-Power DrumKit2 which is free - though a donation is appreciated - (removes nag screen) but fully useable.

ALL Tracks were "played-in" on my Fusion 8HD

Vocals were recorded using an SM58 into my M-Audio Microtrack 24/96 and the Files imported into Reaper

Guide track was the Original from "Wind and Wuthering" - so lacks some of the vocal "ornamentation" of the later "live" renderings (deliberately) . .

So just a "piece of work" to give me a break from my own material . . . :mrgreen:
AfterGlow2 MT Drums 18072017.mp3
Song © Genesis, Original Recording © Charisma Records
(5.2 MiB) Downloaded 6 times
[EDIT - updated version - remixed - rebalanced 18/07/2017 ]

parametric
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Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
http://www.chrisnmiller.co.uk/Chris

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Re: AfterGlow

Unread post by Saul » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:47 pm

Definitely needs a stadium there Chris! Very nice job indeed ((i)) ((i)) ((i))

Just goes to prove that if you have the talent and a keyboard that didn't require a second mortgage to purchase you can do wonderful things :)
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Re: AfterGlow

Unread post by parametric » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:10 pm

Well thankyou Sir! :D

para
Alesis Fusion 8SSD AND 6SSD - BOTH are 384Mb/120Gb SSD/Akai ADVANCE61/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash Ram/Yamaha SY85/8.5mb vol/1024k non-vol/DX21/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu MATE 15.0.4/iBook G4/Mac OS 10.4.6/ProTools 7.4/MBox2/M-Audio 24/96 Sector101 2x SYEMB06 / 4 x EXM-E3 128MB DRAM Module
BRAND NEW DSDD (720k) FLOPPY DISKS FOR SALE - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=9217

Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
http://www.chrisnmiller.co.uk/Chris

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Re: AfterGlow

Unread post by Buzzard » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:21 pm

((i)) Brilliant Chris ((i))

To my ears, this must be inspired by David Gilmour ?

Only thing that wasn't 100% earcandy, was the bass, but nothing serious.

The voice, GREAT ((i))

Thanks for sharing, and showing that instruments can be played instead of sulking about them on a forum. :wink:

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Re: AfterGlow

Unread post by parametric » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:01 am

Fair comment on the Bass Peter. . .

I DO have the sheet Music of this track - and when the Bass is not just a single note (kinda "pedal-point") it alternates to the lower octave on each beat - which is VERY low - you can virtually count the cycles . . .

Probably, I should take those out - its a bit muddy?

Otherwise, its quite close to the original track . . .

I just checked back - I paid £662 for my 8HD back in 2010

Thanks for your interest and comments . . . (Y)

Chris
Alesis Fusion 8SSD AND 6SSD - BOTH are 384Mb/120Gb SSD/Akai ADVANCE61/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash Ram/Yamaha SY85/8.5mb vol/1024k non-vol/DX21/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu MATE 15.0.4/iBook G4/Mac OS 10.4.6/ProTools 7.4/MBox2/M-Audio 24/96 Sector101 2x SYEMB06 / 4 x EXM-E3 128MB DRAM Module
BRAND NEW DSDD (720k) FLOPPY DISKS FOR SALE - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=9217

Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
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Re: AfterGlow

Unread post by parametric » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:35 pm

I've just uploaded an updated version - I forgot to un-mute the Hi-Hat at the "But now I've lost everything" section :oops: ]

Chris
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BRAND NEW DSDD (720k) FLOPPY DISKS FOR SALE - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=9217

Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
http://www.chrisnmiller.co.uk/Chris

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Re: AfterGlow

Unread post by Buzzard » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:27 pm

I like the new version better, the bass is more subtle but still present.

The wife was listening in, and commented the voice to be close to Bowie.
Take that as a compliment Chris. ((i))

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Re: AfterGlow

Unread post by Derek » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:24 am

Hey, Chris,

Been meaning to listen to this for a while. One of my favourite Genesis tracks.

Very good, but if you don't me saying, I think the snare is too high in the mix. This morning I have had to keep the volume down as daughter is in bed sleeping off a hangover! So I have had to keep the playback volume low. It is at low volumes when you sometimes realise that something in the mix is sticking out. I would put the snare down in volume so you can hear the other parts better in balance.

And the hi-hat you unmuted is not the best I have heard - sounds like a sick rattlesnake! Other than that you have the essence of this iconic song song. :)

One I have always wanted to do, but it's finding a singer who has the same "top end" as Phil that was always the issue.

BTW, if you wish to have the Taurus as a VST, then this one is the best

http://antti.smartelectronix.com/

I do not think the Author is about. I paid the donation to remove the nag screen, but never got a response or a version with no nag screen, but it is only there when you open the GUI so not a big deal. It is 32 bit only, but I have used JBridge to get it into Cubase 64.
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Re: AfterGlow

Unread post by parametric » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:15 am

Thanks Derek -

Your're probably right about the snare - a tad heavy, but I guess I was thinking of Phil being PHIL on the Live

versions, and really "going for it" . . . .

The High Hat was the best one I've found so far - the others I've tried being rather "weedy" in comparison . . .

perhaps need to be lower still - as it's only really meant to "register" as "being there" as additional rhythmic interest . . .

The Vocals WERE a problem for me.

I couldn't cut it with the final vocal section - so I cheated - and used pitch adjustment.

Unadorned, on it's own - it just sounds too strange - so I employed a favourite Genesis ploy and doubled it an octave

lower (which also sounds strange, on it's own - unadorned). Together - It just about works . . . . ?

Gabriel use this trick on the opening section of "Supper's Ready" IYR . . . .

It was all I could think of to do, as my voice just won't make it these days (too many fags for too many years I guess) -

and pitching the whole song down, just doesn't sound right (to me).

I think I used ReaPitch or ReaTune in Reaper (which comes with both)

As I've mentioned - It takes away the Composition/Lyrics responsibility, giving me time off from my own stuff when I

get stuck - as I still am ATM . . . :( I have three songs waiting in the wings for lyrics :roll:

So, you see, I'd be a dead loss as an "Artist" - as I'd probably never be able to complete a "contract" in the time

allowed. :roll:

Still - there it is . . . ( At least I'm using the kit I have . . . :mrgreen: )

I'll check out that Taurus . . . The Fusion's offering from Steve Howell is good, but I have to admit a VSTi would be

handy, and I doubt that The HollowSun Fusion Stuff will ever (Now) appear as .nkis

parametric
Alesis Fusion 8SSD AND 6SSD - BOTH are 384Mb/120Gb SSD/Akai ADVANCE61/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash Ram/Yamaha SY85/8.5mb vol/1024k non-vol/DX21/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu MATE 15.0.4/iBook G4/Mac OS 10.4.6/ProTools 7.4/MBox2/M-Audio 24/96 Sector101 2x SYEMB06 / 4 x EXM-E3 128MB DRAM Module
BRAND NEW DSDD (720k) FLOPPY DISKS FOR SALE - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=9217

Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
http://www.chrisnmiller.co.uk/Chris

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Re: AfterGlow

Unread post by Derek » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:56 am

No worries. Sometimes an independent ear will give you a different perspective and after a while you get too used to your own mix (or so I find).

There is many a time I have emphasised something and it feels great in the studio, but, for example, some of my Echoes demo tracks are far too heavy on the kick drum. I need to go back and redo.

Drums can also be a personal preference as well in terms how loud they should be. I prefer to mix them sitting back unless the track calls for it, and I reckon on most tracks cymbals are mixed FAR TOO LOUD. I really push them back unless I really do want a crash for emphasis. As an example of a perfect drum mix, Fleetwood Mac's "Rumours" takes some beating. Great drumming as required for the song to start with, but listen to the cymbal mix. They are there, you can hear them, but they are really in the background, so do not detract from what else is going on.

Which is why Peter Gabriel banned the drummers from using cymbals on his third and fourth albums - takes a while to realise they are cymbal free zones - but there is some great tom work to compensate. A cymbal hit has a huge noise component which has a large masking effect in the frequency spectrum.

Out of interest, and talking about noise, have you ever heard of this mixing technique to quickly establish basic levels? The technique is to basically set a pink noise source to a constant reference level and then solo each track against the noise source and adjust the track gain until you can only just about hear the soloed track against the noise. Repeat for all tracks, and you can get a basic reference mix together in a few minutes.

http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/ ... -reference

Following is debate/testimonial on the technique

http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/viewt ... 22#p391048

I have been using it for a year or so now and it is brilliant. You will still end up tweaking things to taste, but as a quick way to establish levels with everything sitting in balance it is very good.

The Taurus is well worth checking out. As good as the sample instrument may be, I will take a modelled equivalent any day as it will model the subtleties and nuances.

Yup, spotted the harmonies. :) Since learning harmony singing in Welsh Floyd I hear harmonies in a way that I never did before. :)
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Derek Cook

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Re: AfterGlow

Unread post by Derek » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:13 am

On my business trip today, I was in the car listening to the other great album that showcases the Taurus. Rush and "A Farewell to Kings". Xanadu is still one of the coolest openings ever! Had to listen to it twice on max volume! :)

And you can't beat a bit of Genesis "Los Endos" either, especially the live version on from their 2007 tour DVD.
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Re: AfterGlow

Unread post by parametric » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:23 pm

Have to agree on both counts Derek . . .

I've not heard Xanadu for a long while - I must revisit that, but it's on vinyl . . . probably in the roof . . .

And Los Endos . . . well, probably the Best "closing" track for a gig ever, not to say a great encore too . . .

Steve Howell did the Polymoog Vox Humana and Polymoog Strings for the Fusion too - I have them both . . .

I bought all his commercial content for the Fusion (Nebulae, Taurus, Novachord) when he announced that he would not be continuing with the Fusion, but moving to Kontakt . . .

Interestingly, the Nebulae offering (perhaps the best IMO) IS available for Kontakt . . . http://www.hollowsun.com/HS2/products/nebulae/index.htm (£25 + vat)

The Novachord for Kontakt is here: http://www.hollowsun.com/HS2/products/nebulae/index.htm (£50 + vat)

And the Taurus for Kontakt is here: http://www.hollowsun.com/HS2/products/taurus/index.htm (£15 + vat)

Excellent background info on Taurus and Novachord on those links too BTW . . .

parametric
Alesis Fusion 8SSD AND 6SSD - BOTH are 384Mb/120Gb SSD/Akai ADVANCE61/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash Ram/Yamaha SY85/8.5mb vol/1024k non-vol/DX21/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu MATE 15.0.4/iBook G4/Mac OS 10.4.6/ProTools 7.4/MBox2/M-Audio 24/96 Sector101 2x SYEMB06 / 4 x EXM-E3 128MB DRAM Module
BRAND NEW DSDD (720k) FLOPPY DISKS FOR SALE - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=9217

Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
http://www.chrisnmiller.co.uk/Chris

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Re: AfterGlow

Unread post by Derek » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:49 pm

Hi

From what I have seen, Steve Howell (former Electronics and Music Maker contributor, if you remember that hallowed tome) served the Fusion well with his sample sets.

You need to dig out A Farewell to Kings or get it on media you can play. Class album! Hearing Xanadu for the first time in 1979 on BBC1's "Friday Rock Show", along with Yes's "Starship Troopers" completely changed by outlook on music in one single hour! :)

I love Los Endos. Ah, the name of the live 2007 DVD has finally come back to me (must be the glass of Merlot libricating the ailing memory). It is called "When In Rome..." and the culmination of their Turn It On Again Tour - a free concert in front of (reputedly) 500,000 (at least) people. As you say, a great finale song, in the same way that the classic Pink Floyd set MUST finish with "Run Like Hell" - for what is mainly a laid back Floyd set, it is impossible to follow that rocker, especially after filling the stage with Haze and having the lights go crazy on the extended intro, which Pete, our Gilmour clone, had off to a tee...... Then the build up the song kicks in, the sync lead solo (my EX5 still kicks the butt of the Kronos for that sound), the break down the final choruses and the crazy finish! It is one of those songs where after living with the live version for so long, the studio version now seems so limp wristed in comparison. Mind you Yes are like that. I heard so many of the classic songs live from Yes Songs and Yesshows, that I was always disappointed after hunting out the studio equivalents.

I would love to do Los Endos live, but probably do not have the playing chops for the fast keyboard lines in the first section, and I am not sure many bass players I know could do what Mike Rutherford is doing - surely one of the most underrated bass players ever. Especially as to do the song as Rutherford does, you need the double neck 12 string and bass AND the Taurus pedals. But as a finale you could cheat and do the final build up when it drops down to Mellotron choir and build it up. One day....

Ah, Polymoog, you must be reading the other thread? :) I've heard the Fusion VOX Humana samples, they are great. Believe it or not I have a very passable VOX Humana sound on the Kronos that (from memory) uses the AL-1 synth engine AND no samples 8O But the XIL-LABS modelling has topped anything I have heard so far. I was playing along to "Are Friends Electric" the other night with a huge smile on my face, after remembering how to play the low synth. :)
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Derek Cook

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http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
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Re: AfterGlow

Unread post by parametric » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:22 am

Well Derek,

I've remixed it again and put it in the original post - and think it is definitely better. Calmed the Snare down - and actually, the whole kit. Smoothed out a few "spikes" in the vocals, and generally re-balanced it all again. Took the choir down a bit too.

Problem is, you can get to the stage where you never stop fiddling :roll: if you're not careful . . .

Someone at Uni once said to me NEVER mix down on the same day you finish recording. You NEED to come to it FRESH

Good advice I think. you sometimes just NEED to step away from it for a while . . .

I have to say, NI GuitarRig5 impresses me. When I first saw it I didn't see how it could be much use to me, as I don't really play guitar anymore, but I have to say it has done a decent job on my "keyboarded" 12-string track . . .

I'm almost tempted to get my LP copy out and attempt "Tales of Brave Ulysses" or "White Room" - and "give it the treatment" . . . Trouble is, my duff finger + its been a long time :roll:

I wasn't THAT good when I played in the 3-piece, but managed to do "a version" of Eric as well as doing the lead vocal too. Problem was, our Bassist just "wasn't Jack" - and it tended to sound a bit thin - so I kept having to revert to chords to prop it up . . . . Talk about STRESS - but it was fun too . . . .

You're right about Steve. He and Klaus rescued the Fusion from the hammering it got over the factory sounds.

My Fusions both had 80Gb drives , so I guess they were "later" models. I always thought the sounds were rather good, but there you go . . . .

I guess PM will just keep getting better, if PianoTeq is anything to go by - I'll have to audition it some time . . .

Your Kronos sounds a tasty bit of kit - I've not played a Korg - except the one Saul had when I visited him to try the MOXF6. Uncle Rick is quite a fan I believe?

ATB

parametric
Alesis Fusion 8SSD AND 6SSD - BOTH are 384Mb/120Gb SSD/Akai ADVANCE61/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash Ram/Yamaha SY85/8.5mb vol/1024k non-vol/DX21/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu MATE 15.0.4/iBook G4/Mac OS 10.4.6/ProTools 7.4/MBox2/M-Audio 24/96 Sector101 2x SYEMB06 / 4 x EXM-E3 128MB DRAM Module
BRAND NEW DSDD (720k) FLOPPY DISKS FOR SALE - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=9217

Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
http://www.chrisnmiller.co.uk/Chris

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